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	<title>Comments on: When does police coercion make a confession involuntary?</title>
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	<link>http://apublicdefender.com/2008/12/25/when-does-police-coercion-make-a-confession-involuntary/</link>
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		<title>By: Vanessa</title>
		<link>http://apublicdefender.com/2008/12/25/when-does-police-coercion-make-a-confession-involuntary/comment-page-1/#comment-53597</link>
		<dc:creator>Vanessa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 01:12:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://apublicdefender.com/?p=2016#comment-53597</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m going to be very honest, i am a college student getting my degree in criminology...Every quarter i have less and less faith in our justice system. I find myself wondering is this really what i want to do. How can i help people when the system is set up to &quot;let people walk&quot;... As for our constitutional rights, they get stepped on all the time. What can we do though?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m going to be very honest, i am a college student getting my degree in criminology&#8230;Every quarter i have less and less faith in our justice system. I find myself wondering is this really what i want to do. How can i help people when the system is set up to &#8220;let people walk&#8221;&#8230; As for our constitutional rights, they get stepped on all the time. What can we do though?</p>
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		<title>By: Gerard</title>
		<link>http://apublicdefender.com/2008/12/25/when-does-police-coercion-make-a-confession-involuntary/comment-page-1/#comment-45238</link>
		<dc:creator>Gerard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 21:34:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://apublicdefender.com/?p=2016#comment-45238</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&lt;Didn’t Vietnam prove to us that honest innocent people wouldn’t give false confessions just because they were treated this way?&lt;/i&gt;
The American military is not a representative subset of the US population.  Service members receive training in the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.koreanwar-educator.org/topics/brief/p_code_of_conduct.htm&quot;&gt;Code of Conduct&lt;/a&gt; developed after the Korean War.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&lt;Didn’t Vietnam prove to us that honest innocent people wouldn’t give false confessions just because they were treated this way?</i><br />
The American military is not a representative subset of the US population.  Service members receive training in the <a href="http://www.koreanwar-educator.org/topics/brief/p_code_of_conduct.htm">Code of Conduct</a> developed after the Korean War.</p>
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		<title>By: Gideon</title>
		<link>http://apublicdefender.com/2008/12/25/when-does-police-coercion-make-a-confession-involuntary/comment-page-1/#comment-45236</link>
		<dc:creator>Gideon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 20:46:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://apublicdefender.com/?p=2016#comment-45236</guid>
		<description>So what do you think the 4th Amendment protects? And what is the remedy for a violation? Do you really think it means: &quot;no illegal searches and seizures, but if you conduct one, it&#039;s okay, don&#039;t worry about it.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So what do you think the 4th Amendment protects? And what is the remedy for a violation? Do you really think it means: &#8220;no illegal searches and seizures, but if you conduct one, it&#8217;s okay, don&#8217;t worry about it.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://apublicdefender.com/2008/12/25/when-does-police-coercion-make-a-confession-involuntary/comment-page-1/#comment-45235</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 20:41:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://apublicdefender.com/?p=2016#comment-45235</guid>
		<description>Rick Horowitz:  

OK, deal, let&#039;s follow just the Constitution.  First, we get rid of Miranda warnings, since there is no provision of the Constitution requiring police to act as advisers of accused&#039;s rights.

Then, we get rid of the exclusionary rule in search and seizure cases.  There is, after all, no provision in the Constitution stating that evidence seized in violation of the 4th Am. cannot be used at trial.

Then, we get rid of court-appointed counsel, since nothing in the Constitution says an accused has the right to have a lawyer provided to him (it only says he has a right to counsel, not that counsel must be provided at no cost by the state).

I could go on... point is, &quot;the Constitution&quot; is not necessarily the defendant friendly document you assume it is.  Only by dint of accretions to the document by creative judges do the &quot;rights&quot; I&#039;ve referenced exist.

So if and when these same judges begin to pare back crim procedure to bring it in line with the actual wording of the constitution, one can hardly complain that the &quot;Constitution&quot; is being eroded.  No, the &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;accrued, extra-textual interpretations&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt; of the Constitution are being revised.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rick Horowitz:  </p>
<p>OK, deal, let&#8217;s follow just the Constitution.  First, we get rid of Miranda warnings, since there is no provision of the Constitution requiring police to act as advisers of accused&#8217;s rights.</p>
<p>Then, we get rid of the exclusionary rule in search and seizure cases.  There is, after all, no provision in the Constitution stating that evidence seized in violation of the 4th Am. cannot be used at trial.</p>
<p>Then, we get rid of court-appointed counsel, since nothing in the Constitution says an accused has the right to have a lawyer provided to him (it only says he has a right to counsel, not that counsel must be provided at no cost by the state).</p>
<p>I could go on&#8230; point is, &#8220;the Constitution&#8221; is not necessarily the defendant friendly document you assume it is.  Only by dint of accretions to the document by creative judges do the &#8220;rights&#8221; I&#8217;ve referenced exist.</p>
<p>So if and when these same judges begin to pare back crim procedure to bring it in line with the actual wording of the constitution, one can hardly complain that the &#8220;Constitution&#8221; is being eroded.  No, the <b><i>accrued, extra-textual interpretations</i></b> of the Constitution are being revised.</p>
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		<title>By: A Voice of Sanity</title>
		<link>http://apublicdefender.com/2008/12/25/when-does-police-coercion-make-a-confession-involuntary/comment-page-1/#comment-45068</link>
		<dc:creator>A Voice of Sanity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 02:50:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://apublicdefender.com/?p=2016#comment-45068</guid>
		<description>A confession obtained without deceit or psychological tricks is surely more effective than one with such a taint. It still stuns me that people say, &quot;I never thought the police would lie to me&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A confession obtained without deceit or psychological tricks is surely more effective than one with such a taint. It still stuns me that people say, &#8220;I never thought the police would lie to me&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Gerard</title>
		<link>http://apublicdefender.com/2008/12/25/when-does-police-coercion-make-a-confession-involuntary/comment-page-1/#comment-45065</link>
		<dc:creator>Gerard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 00:04:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://apublicdefender.com/?p=2016#comment-45065</guid>
		<description>Do you think the SCOTUS ruling that police can lie to individuals should be overturned?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you think the SCOTUS ruling that police can lie to individuals should be overturned?</p>
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		<title>By: A Voice of Sanity</title>
		<link>http://apublicdefender.com/2008/12/25/when-does-police-coercion-make-a-confession-involuntary/comment-page-1/#comment-45051</link>
		<dc:creator>A Voice of Sanity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 07:34:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://apublicdefender.com/?p=2016#comment-45051</guid>
		<description>Asking “Do you know what happened?” doesn&#039;t seem to involve any sort of lies or threats.
However if you look at http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3613/is_/ai_n9171632 you will see many of the techniques that result in false confession - and did.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Asking “Do you know what happened?” doesn&#8217;t seem to involve any sort of lies or threats.<br />
However if you look at <a href="http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3613/is_/ai_n9171632" rel="nofollow">http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3613/is_/ai_n9171632</a> you will see many of the techniques that result in false confession &#8211; and did.</p>
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		<title>By: Gerard</title>
		<link>http://apublicdefender.com/2008/12/25/when-does-police-coercion-make-a-confession-involuntary/comment-page-1/#comment-45047</link>
		<dc:creator>Gerard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2008 23:31:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://apublicdefender.com/?p=2016#comment-45047</guid>
		<description>A judge should take a bribe as part of an undercover investigation in cooperation with law enforcement.

If a police officer walks up to someone and says, &quot;Do you know what happened?&quot; and that person falsely confesses, does that mean no police officer should ever ask anyone that question?

The morality (legality) of an action isn&#039;t determined solely, or even primarily, by its outcome. Is whoever planted a tree near the Garden State Parkway responsible for &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2008/12/26/holiday_accident_in_new_jersey_kills_arlington_man_his_mother/?p1=Well_MostPop_Emailed6&quot;&gt;the ensuing death?&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A judge should take a bribe as part of an undercover investigation in cooperation with law enforcement.</p>
<p>If a police officer walks up to someone and says, &#8220;Do you know what happened?&#8221; and that person falsely confesses, does that mean no police officer should ever ask anyone that question?</p>
<p>The morality (legality) of an action isn&#8217;t determined solely, or even primarily, by its outcome. Is whoever planted a tree near the Garden State Parkway responsible for <a href="http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2008/12/26/holiday_accident_in_new_jersey_kills_arlington_man_his_mother/?p1=Well_MostPop_Emailed6">the ensuing death?</a></p>
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		<title>By: A Voice of Sanity</title>
		<link>http://apublicdefender.com/2008/12/25/when-does-police-coercion-make-a-confession-involuntary/comment-page-1/#comment-45039</link>
		<dc:creator>A Voice of Sanity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2008 05:52:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://apublicdefender.com/?p=2016#comment-45039</guid>
		<description>No, I didn&#039;t miss the paradox, but I felt an explanation might not be understood whereas an obvious exception would be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, I didn&#8217;t miss the paradox, but I felt an explanation might not be understood whereas an obvious exception would be.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Horowitz</title>
		<link>http://apublicdefender.com/2008/12/25/when-does-police-coercion-make-a-confession-involuntary/comment-page-1/#comment-45038</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Horowitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2008 04:59:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://apublicdefender.com/?p=2016#comment-45038</guid>
		<description>Uh...someone missed a joke.  I&#039;m not sure which of you it was, since I don&#039;t know you guys. 

&quot;All absolute statements are wrong&quot; is an example of Epimenides Paradox (look it up). 

And the reason I cannot tell which of you missed the irony is that the person who stated the Paradox simply pointed out that the comment to which he responded was incomplete and then vomited up the Paradox as if that explained why the comment to which he responded was incomplete.  (And he was wrong.)  

You&#039;re welcome.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Uh&#8230;someone missed a joke.  I&#8217;m not sure which of you it was, since I don&#8217;t know you guys. </p>
<p>&#8220;All absolute statements are wrong&#8221; is an example of Epimenides Paradox (look it up). </p>
<p>And the reason I cannot tell which of you missed the irony is that the person who stated the Paradox simply pointed out that the comment to which he responded was incomplete and then vomited up the Paradox as if that explained why the comment to which he responded was incomplete.  (And he was wrong.)  </p>
<p>You&#8217;re welcome.</p>
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