Comments on: Drive away. I dare you.

By: LJS

LJS — Fri, 26 Sep 2008 15:46:20 +0000

Getting out of the car is very likely to make the officer(s) nervous — traffic stops are a leading incident for officer death/injury, so they are as nervous as you are. Driving away isn’t just going to get an officer upset, I expect.

By: Lil Spicy

Lil Spicy — Fri, 26 Sep 2008 13:13:58 +0000

Paul,

There is a running joke here in my office that “being black or Hispanic is probable cause for something.” If the cops didn’t have it at the time they made the arrest, they’ll figure it out by the time they hit the stand….often with the aid of the prosecutor.

Windy,

I agree with you on that. An I also feel that what a “reasonable person” would believe, think or feel, changes over time and varies depending on the race of the person in question. It’s not a static concept.

I see lots of blacks & Hispanics standing on street corners and when the cops roll up, they ALL scatter like roaches….nobody wants to be subject to a random, bullshit pat down or beat down whether innocent or guilty. So they ALL run.

I’ve yet to see white kids standing on a corner in their neighborhood do the same thing.

The cops are allowed to “profile” based upon race and they do. They disguise it as some sort of superpower based upon “training & experience.” It’s all discriminatory and has a disparate impact upon minorities. So in my mind, the “reasonable man” standard isn’t cut & dry and never will be.

By: shg

shg — Fri, 26 Sep 2008 12:38:05 +0000

I’m always curious how different judges explain the factual dinstinction between being seized and being detained. Since “reasonably detained” people aren’t free to leave, are they not seized? And if they are seized, what difference does the mental operation of the officer make in the person’s understanding of his rights?

4th Amendment discussions are always such fun.

By: Windypundit

Windypundit — Fri, 26 Sep 2008 04:26:17 +0000

I know I’m a crackpot, but I still say that what a reasonable person would believe in this situation is a question of fact, not law, and should be submitted to a jury of some kind, not left to a judge. Just try to convince ordinary people that they should know they’re free to drive away.

By: Paul B. Kennedy

Paul B. Kennedy — Fri, 26 Sep 2008 02:33:19 +0000

I had a judge here in Houston deny a motion to suppress when my client was in his car with another person (an employee) in a gas station parking lot – during operating hours – and the police came up behind the car (there was an 18-wheeler parked in front of them), got out and approached.

The cops’ explanation was they were on an anti-auto theft detail and this car sitting in a parking lot was suspicious.

The judge ruled that (1) there was no seizure and (2) the cops had reasonable suspicion to detain him anyway.

I think the rule is there is no 4th amendment protection if you’re black and have drugs in your possession.

Paul B. Kennedy
Attorney at Law
http://www.kennedy-law.biz

By: ida

ida — Fri, 26 Sep 2008 01:45:54 +0000

i agree with lil spicy…there is no way i would drive away from the cop. around my neighborhood they come up with weapons drawn just to give a “speeding” ticket. that is the excuss they used to stop you. personally i would rather have my hands where they can see you and my car turned off and radio off and window down. hell now would i ever drive off or do anything without being asked. infact i wont even admit to speeding…….lol

By: A Voice of Sanity

A Voice of Sanity — Fri, 26 Sep 2008 01:04:40 +0000

In these situations, there is an inherent assault and an implied threat of battery, possibly causing grievous injury or death. If the cop is holding his gun it adds “with a deadly weapon” to the above. And all of course also come with “under color of authority”.

By: Gideon

Gideon — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 15:52:43 +0000

It’s true and it’s disappointing, really.

By: S

Thu, 25 Sep 2008 15:22:20 +0000

I know it’s predictable, but in every 4th Amendment case I’ve ever argued, the only way I came close to winning was to get a judge to think, “Wait, _I_ could be stopped if I approve thie one.” I think your current and mine are just part of the same thing. Cops only stop the people who really are up to something (and if they happen to stumble upon an innocent person, well they just smile and let you go on your way in no time at all). That must be true because every case they see involves the cops finding something.

By: Heather B

Heather B — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 15:08:43 +0000

Your poll doesn’t have the “hell, no” choice, which I would have selected.