Cops lie and people die
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Grits for Breakfast points us to this important and disturbing story published in the L.A. Times a few days ago. It is a report on the murder of 16-year old Martha Puebla, whose name the police used while fabricating an identification.
They were trying to get her boyfriend for an unrelated murder and during their interrogation of him, they showed him a photo array (already a source of many problems) where they forged a circle around his picture with Martha’s initials and an “identification” beneath it.
To drive home his point, [police officer] Pinner laid down a “six-pack” — an array of mug shots that detectives often show to witnesses or victims of crimes. On it, [suspect] Ledesma’s photo was circled, and the initials “M.P.” were written below it. “Those is the guy that shot my friends boyfriend” was scrawled along the margin, followed by Puebla’s signature.
“I don’t even know a Martha,” Ledesma lied.
Police deceit during investigations and interrogations has long been tolerated (see, e.g. Illinios v. Perkins), but this may be one of those instances of the disconnect between theory and reality. In this case, it lead to Puebla’s death:
The next night, Ledesma reached for a pay phone outside his cell. “Cokester,” he said into the receiver, calling his friend Javier Covarrubias by one of his gang monikers, “do you know the slut that lives there by . . . my house? Her name starts with an M . . . I need her to disappear. She is dropping dimes.”
To the gang, Puebla was a snitch and needed to be dealt with.
“Uh huh, like that,” Ledesma told Covarrubias, using a mix of Spanish and English. “But [keep a] low-pro[file]. ..Stay on your toes, homie. And don’t get caught.”
Of course, this is also a product of the anti-snitching culture that has garnered much attention. But the fact remains that as a result of the deceit on the part of these law enforcement officers, a young girl is dead.
Cases like Illinois above have given cops free reign of the interrogation room - everyone’s heard of good cop, bad cop - and license to lie about almost anything, resulting in false confessions.
While I recognize the arguments supporting lying to suspects during interrogations, there has to be some sort of oversight and limits placed on the extent of permissible deceit. Certainly, endangering the life of someone who is innocent and whom the cops should know would be in danger of losing his/her life as a result of their lie should be outside those limits.
The responsibility of law enforcement is to protect citizens and ensure their safety, not to endanger them while engaged in a tunnel-visioned pursuit of “catching a criminal”.
So what is the line? When is deceit okay, if at all? Should it hinge on waiver of Miranda rights? I’ll expound on those thoughts in a later post.
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I know the focus of this is tolerance of deception as an investigatory tactic, but I couldn’t help but notice the sheer stupidity of it. Surely the police knew that person existed and would be at risk.
Isn’t that the remarkable thing? These were supposedly experienced detectives who have had dealings with gangs and gang members in the past. They had to have known. It was irresponsible and reckless.
Yeah, it’s difficult to justify this little maneuver without so much as warning the witness. I’d have a hard time sleeping at night. Of course, you’re the guys that justify handing over witness’ addresses to hardened criminals.
yea because not warning the girl is the issue.
So it’s ok to put people at risk if they know you’re putting them at risk . . . .
Whatever. And how many witnesses know that defense attorneys are risking their lives . . . . the victims of Sir Mario Owens in Colorado certainly did not. So what does that mean . . . . I guess it’s bad when the cops do it, but noble when you guys do it. Oh that’s right, it’s noble because the defendant “owns” a file–yeah, a file that the state paid for.
I’m impressed. No it’s admiration. The way you fight back from an indefensible position is inspiring. I raise and you come back over the top of me making me wonder if my royal flush is any good! Screw it, I’m all in;
I’ve got immoral police using an innocent citizens (read NOT a witness) name while interviewing a suspected murderer. The only relevant issue.
I’ve got you trying to compare the elements of this case with the Sir Mario Ownen’s case. Not even close.
I’ve got you inferring that a defense attorney gave up the names of the witnesses against Mr. Owens TO Mr. Owens. They were witnesses for the prosecution and point of fact, they were actually witnesses. See elements of;
And I’ve got you making a bad argument and telling half lies because you don’t have the moral fiber to know when you should just fold your cards and get up from the table.
Where is my W.S.O.P. bracelet?
BTW: Please don’t infer that I’m a criminal defense attorney. I haven’t earned the right to be called that………….yet.
Wow, the bit dog barks.
I guess it’s ok to kill a “snitch”, but not ok to kill a witness who is mistakenly believed to be a “snitch”. I get it.
And just so you can follow the arguments, Edin, remember, I first talked about providing the addresses of a witness, which has been justified in here. Second, news reports indicated that the info used to ambush the target was gotten from a defense attorney (who, I am sure, sleeps soundly).
I am white and without lots of money. (Thats what i believe its all about.)My father in law is also a retired .. county deputy sherriff.I am now out of Ca. living in another state and I know if I was still in Ca. I wouldnt be dealing with what I am. I am leary and afraid to say but I am talking about lies ! lies to benefit them.I hope and pray it all works out for me (the one not lying)
I used to admire police and other law enforcement personnel as the good guys. Highly educated and more experienced than most rookies, I saw first hand how racism, boozing, lies, ego junkies and evil personalities saturated law enforcement. Police are way of out of control and are dishonest to the core especially in recruitment. Police hirings are often executed by unfit and uneducated burnt out cops who, personnel deploy them in this stations to get them off the streets. Often recruitment is extremely unsterile and dirty internal connections, nepotism and tokenism (affirmative action) has diluted the job. In Canada, like others I have seen idiotic hiring in RCMP, OPP, Peel Regional, Redcliffe, Metro Toronto, CP Railways, Lethbridge, Vancouver, etc. that is purely mindboggling and defies public morality.
Sadly put, instead of the cream of the crop, we are digging at the bottom of the barrel. Nowhere is this more prevalent than the RCMP who often recruit, inexperienced young cadet (early 20’s) who lack social skills, work experiences, life experiences, etc. Their PARE physical fitness test has been diluted to appease the weaker sex, women with a joke qualifying time. Even as a deputy sheriff in Vancouver long ago, I saw contemptible managers, chronic boozing, etc. that was repulsive. Simply put, its a cohesive rat pack mentality with no accountability and this contribtes to the spiral down spin in public confidence.
Are the best recruiter, not even close. Incompetence and unprofessional misconducts are a way of life. Who protects us from them, not the law…
Kerwin Maude