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	<title>Comments on: In which Gideon wishes more prosecutors were reasonable</title>
	<atom:link href="http://apublicdefender.com/2007/12/27/in-which-gideon-wishes-more-prosecutors-were-reasonable/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://apublicdefender.com/2007/12/27/in-which-gideon-wishes-more-prosecutors-were-reasonable/</link>
	<description></description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 13:30:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: SaucyVixen</title>
		<link>http://apublicdefender.com/2007/12/27/in-which-gideon-wishes-more-prosecutors-were-reasonable/#comment-12057</link>
		<dc:creator>SaucyVixen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 20:50:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://apublicdefender.com/2007/12/27/in-which-gideon-wishes-more-prosecutors-were-reasonable/#comment-12057</guid>
		<description>And who said the days of the Compassionate Conservative are dead?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And who said the days of the Compassionate Conservative are dead?</p>
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		<title>By: SPO</title>
		<link>http://apublicdefender.com/2007/12/27/in-which-gideon-wishes-more-prosecutors-were-reasonable/#comment-12037</link>
		<dc:creator>SPO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 17:36:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://apublicdefender.com/2007/12/27/in-which-gideon-wishes-more-prosecutors-were-reasonable/#comment-12037</guid>
		<description>Book, time, then ICE.  If I were running the show, deported violent aliens who were found back in the US would face either death (if the deported crime was murder, att. murder, rape, three violent felonies) or LWOP.

The reason I would hammer illegals is that I'd want to send a message that if you weren't born here, and you commit crimes in my jurisdiction, you will get crushed.  That goes for gang graffitti.  Anything.  Plus, illegals often simply flee back to whence they came, making prosecution more difficult and justice harder to come by.  The hammer would come down.  Big time.  Actually, I think any illegal alien committing a serious crime should be death eligible or face LWOP.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Book, time, then ICE.  If I were running the show, deported violent aliens who were found back in the US would face either death (if the deported crime was murder, att. murder, rape, three violent felonies) or LWOP.</p>
<p>The reason I would hammer illegals is that I&#8217;d want to send a message that if you weren&#8217;t born here, and you commit crimes in my jurisdiction, you will get crushed.  That goes for gang graffitti.  Anything.  Plus, illegals often simply flee back to whence they came, making prosecution more difficult and justice harder to come by.  The hammer would come down.  Big time.  Actually, I think any illegal alien committing a serious crime should be death eligible or face LWOP.</p>
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		<title>By: SaucyVixen</title>
		<link>http://apublicdefender.com/2007/12/27/in-which-gideon-wishes-more-prosecutors-were-reasonable/#comment-12036</link>
		<dc:creator>SaucyVixen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 17:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://apublicdefender.com/2007/12/27/in-which-gideon-wishes-more-prosecutors-were-reasonable/#comment-12036</guid>
		<description>Immigration status and violence are two completely separate and distinct things.

Even as a PD, I understand that violence (both the conduct alleged and the defendant's history) needs to be considered.  But immigration status?

Okay, so you're anti-illegal-alien.  I may disagree, but I get it.  That said, wouldn't it make MORE sense just to get ride of the people who aren't legally here?  Under your own rationale, why allocate resources (housing folks in crowded prisons isn't free) to those who shouldn't be here?

If you don't like illegal aliens, wouldn't you rather ICE 'em than "throw the book" at 'em?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Immigration status and violence are two completely separate and distinct things.</p>
<p>Even as a PD, I understand that violence (both the conduct alleged and the defendant&#8217;s history) needs to be considered.  But immigration status?</p>
<p>Okay, so you&#8217;re anti-illegal-alien.  I may disagree, but I get it.  That said, wouldn&#8217;t it make MORE sense just to get ride of the people who aren&#8217;t legally here?  Under your own rationale, why allocate resources (housing folks in crowded prisons isn&#8217;t free) to those who shouldn&#8217;t be here?</p>
<p>If you don&#8217;t like illegal aliens, wouldn&#8217;t you rather ICE &#8216;em than &#8220;throw the book&#8221; at &#8216;em?</p>
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		<title>By: SPO</title>
		<link>http://apublicdefender.com/2007/12/27/in-which-gideon-wishes-more-prosecutors-were-reasonable/#comment-11931</link>
		<dc:creator>SPO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 16:51:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://apublicdefender.com/2007/12/27/in-which-gideon-wishes-more-prosecutors-were-reasonable/#comment-11931</guid>
		<description>Without question, prosecutors have to look at resource allocation.  One pet peeve of mine is the utter pointlessness (and cruelty) of some prosecutions.  The "buttslap" case in Oregon springs to mind.  I think also, if I were a prosecutor and some guy spent a few months in jail because he didn't make bail and it turned out that he flat-out didn't do it, I would apologize to him in person.  

But, were I a prosecutor, I would go against the grain with what things are "worth".  I would push for the max on a lot of violent crimes, and I would creatively use the law to ensure that people got hammered.  For example, if the defendant were an illegal alien and violent, I would throw the book at him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Without question, prosecutors have to look at resource allocation.  One pet peeve of mine is the utter pointlessness (and cruelty) of some prosecutions.  The &#8220;buttslap&#8221; case in Oregon springs to mind.  I think also, if I were a prosecutor and some guy spent a few months in jail because he didn&#8217;t make bail and it turned out that he flat-out didn&#8217;t do it, I would apologize to him in person.  </p>
<p>But, were I a prosecutor, I would go against the grain with what things are &#8220;worth&#8221;.  I would push for the max on a lot of violent crimes, and I would creatively use the law to ensure that people got hammered.  For example, if the defendant were an illegal alien and violent, I would throw the book at him.</p>
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		<title>By: Miranda</title>
		<link>http://apublicdefender.com/2007/12/27/in-which-gideon-wishes-more-prosecutors-were-reasonable/#comment-11905</link>
		<dc:creator>Miranda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 13:34:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://apublicdefender.com/2007/12/27/in-which-gideon-wishes-more-prosecutors-were-reasonable/#comment-11905</guid>
		<description>SPO - Yes, I think that most prosecutors are acting on a good faith belief that they are protecting society. But they also need to seek justice and make effective use of the system. It's a balancing act that some prosecutors can't seem to handle. Prosecutors should not be in that profession if they are interested in litigating for purposes of winning and losing. Go work on the civil side. I think in criminal court, for prosecution and defense work, egos need to be left at the door as much as possible.

On the defense side, to answer your question, yes, ethically, I zealously represent my client and do everything possible to get the best result for him/her.  But obviously, my tone, attitude, and conduct will be different when, for example, I feel a case is worth no more than 2 years in prison, and the offer is 10, as opposed to where the offer is 3.  I wouldn't "cave in" on the 3-year offer, but I can tell you that I would have a much more reasonable and productive conversation with the prosecutor.  With the 10-year offer, after I laughed, my comments would be something along the lines of, are you f-ing serious?? This is not a negotiation about money for damages - it's about justice.  I have little patience or respect for those prosecutors who behave like there is no difference. 

So, while I would pursue what I thought was an appropriate outcome in either case, my behavior and attitude would be very different in the two scenarios, if that is what you are asking.  I have had the pleasure of dealing with some very reasonable prosecutors, who I don't think anyone would accuse of being "soft on crime."  It's when the system is at its best - I do my job, they do theirs, and everyone ends up with a result we can all live with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SPO - Yes, I think that most prosecutors are acting on a good faith belief that they are protecting society. But they also need to seek justice and make effective use of the system. It&#8217;s a balancing act that some prosecutors can&#8217;t seem to handle. Prosecutors should not be in that profession if they are interested in litigating for purposes of winning and losing. Go work on the civil side. I think in criminal court, for prosecution and defense work, egos need to be left at the door as much as possible.</p>
<p>On the defense side, to answer your question, yes, ethically, I zealously represent my client and do everything possible to get the best result for him/her.  But obviously, my tone, attitude, and conduct will be different when, for example, I feel a case is worth no more than 2 years in prison, and the offer is 10, as opposed to where the offer is 3.  I wouldn&#8217;t &#8220;cave in&#8221; on the 3-year offer, but I can tell you that I would have a much more reasonable and productive conversation with the prosecutor.  With the 10-year offer, after I laughed, my comments would be something along the lines of, are you f-ing serious?? This is not a negotiation about money for damages - it&#8217;s about justice.  I have little patience or respect for those prosecutors who behave like there is no difference. </p>
<p>So, while I would pursue what I thought was an appropriate outcome in either case, my behavior and attitude would be very different in the two scenarios, if that is what you are asking.  I have had the pleasure of dealing with some very reasonable prosecutors, who I don&#8217;t think anyone would accuse of being &#8220;soft on crime.&#8221;  It&#8217;s when the system is at its best - I do my job, they do theirs, and everyone ends up with a result we can all live with.</p>
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		<title>By: SPO</title>
		<link>http://apublicdefender.com/2007/12/27/in-which-gideon-wishes-more-prosecutors-were-reasonable/#comment-11856</link>
		<dc:creator>SPO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 00:36:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://apublicdefender.com/2007/12/27/in-which-gideon-wishes-more-prosecutors-were-reasonable/#comment-11856</guid>
		<description>Fine, I'll ask another question, and this is with good intentions.  Have you ever thought that prosecutors think that they are in the business of protecting society from the predations of your clients?  Perhaps, some are a pain in the ass because they honestly believe that being a hardass all the time results, on the whole, on increased safety for society.  Put in that perspective, their hardassness may be reasonable. 

Believe it or not, if I were a prosecutor, I would likely not be a hardass.  But if I thought a defendant a real danger to society, I would drive a very hard bargain.  

Lastly, and I am well aware that prosecutors and PDs have different functions, but do you as a PD, where the conduct is worse than the run-of-the-mill case with the same charge as your client, ever make yourself easier to deal with?  Do you ever cave a little on a case to make your credibility better on others?   Ethically, the answer is no.  So when a prosecutor acts the same, is that so bad?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fine, I&#8217;ll ask another question, and this is with good intentions.  Have you ever thought that prosecutors think that they are in the business of protecting society from the predations of your clients?  Perhaps, some are a pain in the ass because they honestly believe that being a hardass all the time results, on the whole, on increased safety for society.  Put in that perspective, their hardassness may be reasonable. </p>
<p>Believe it or not, if I were a prosecutor, I would likely not be a hardass.  But if I thought a defendant a real danger to society, I would drive a very hard bargain.  </p>
<p>Lastly, and I am well aware that prosecutors and PDs have different functions, but do you as a PD, where the conduct is worse than the run-of-the-mill case with the same charge as your client, ever make yourself easier to deal with?  Do you ever cave a little on a case to make your credibility better on others?   Ethically, the answer is no.  So when a prosecutor acts the same, is that so bad?</p>
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		<title>By: Gideon</title>
		<link>http://apublicdefender.com/2007/12/27/in-which-gideon-wishes-more-prosecutors-were-reasonable/#comment-11340</link>
		<dc:creator>Gideon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Dec 2007 22:26:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://apublicdefender.com/2007/12/27/in-which-gideon-wishes-more-prosecutors-were-reasonable/#comment-11340</guid>
		<description>&lt;img src="http://www.myoldtruck.com/gallery/files/1/2/9/jeez_not_this_shit_again.jpg" alt="troll" /&gt;

You, my good sir, are now officially a troll.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img src="http://www.myoldtruck.com/gallery/files/1/2/9/jeez_not_this_shit_again.jpg" alt="troll" /></p>
<p>You, my good sir, are now officially a troll.</p>
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		<title>By: SPO</title>
		<link>http://apublicdefender.com/2007/12/27/in-which-gideon-wishes-more-prosecutors-were-reasonable/#comment-11326</link>
		<dc:creator>SPO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Dec 2007 16:45:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://apublicdefender.com/2007/12/27/in-which-gideon-wishes-more-prosecutors-were-reasonable/#comment-11326</guid>
		<description>Why not?  Honestly, I think a lot of you guys are full of yourselves.  You hold yourselves out as protectors of liberty etc. etc.  And I agree that public defenders provide a service that we need.  But make no mistake, abetting witness intimidation, exulting over destroying victims on the stand etc. etc. tick a lot of people off.  And there are prosecutors who have the same self-righteousness as you guys do, and they make you work.  Forgive me if I don't feel your pain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why not?  Honestly, I think a lot of you guys are full of yourselves.  You hold yourselves out as protectors of liberty etc. etc.  And I agree that public defenders provide a service that we need.  But make no mistake, abetting witness intimidation, exulting over destroying victims on the stand etc. etc. tick a lot of people off.  And there are prosecutors who have the same self-righteousness as you guys do, and they make you work.  Forgive me if I don&#8217;t feel your pain.</p>
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		<title>By: Gideon</title>
		<link>http://apublicdefender.com/2007/12/27/in-which-gideon-wishes-more-prosecutors-were-reasonable/#comment-11325</link>
		<dc:creator>Gideon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Dec 2007 16:28:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://apublicdefender.com/2007/12/27/in-which-gideon-wishes-more-prosecutors-were-reasonable/#comment-11325</guid>
		<description>Why do you even bother?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why do you even bother?</p>
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		<title>By: SPO</title>
		<link>http://apublicdefender.com/2007/12/27/in-which-gideon-wishes-more-prosecutors-were-reasonable/#comment-11324</link>
		<dc:creator>SPO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Dec 2007 16:25:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://apublicdefender.com/2007/12/27/in-which-gideon-wishes-more-prosecutors-were-reasonable/#comment-11324</guid>
		<description>Some prosecutors probably just don't like defense attorneys.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some prosecutors probably just don&#8217;t like defense attorneys.</p>
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